Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

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Wodz
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Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby Wodz » July 12th, 2009, 5:59 pm

IRC is fun, but I think we all prefer the past. Can't I just pay someone to re-create Zone?

Maybe someone you know is a professional programmer.. maybe you think you are gifted with C++... can this be done? One lobby is enough and perhaps the ZF messenger.. directplay through the game rooms of course.. just like it use to be. the IGL did a decent job ripped it off.. go rip them off and jump on msn gaming zone and rip off their coding too.

This thread is not for debate. Create a new topic for debate/polls and see what everyone else thinks.

Anyone who is serious send me a pm on the board. Name your price. Once discussed, you can submit a business plan and eta and we can negotiate dollars.

Wodz

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby BeefCaike » July 12th, 2009, 8:38 pm

I think you should offer Zeq a nice chunk of change to make JKLauncher the way JKers want it, and work with him until it is finished. He is a very good programmer, but he lost his motivation and doesn't care about JK anymore.

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby EAH_XxHeReTiKxX » July 12th, 2009, 9:09 pm

The short answer is yes. I looked into this quite a few times, and did extensive research(no joke) to determine how viable of a possibility this would be. Here is a short list of what I discovered:

  • Numerous code examples exist to assist in the creation of a DirectPlay lobby. The DirectX 5 SDK contains a full lobby with source code that could be built off of by an experienced C++ programmer. The SDK contains plenty of documentation for DirectPlay.
  • Although there were a few possibilities that existed in the 90's, no commercial directplay lobby systems exist.
  • IGZ developed their lobby system, which effectively ended my quest for an independent Lobby project
  • A lobby system requires a server and a constantly upgraded client/server lobby system. We would need to not only find a reliable server, but we would need to pay the salary of a part time programmer to develop software updates.

Also, I should point out that it is not possible to "rip" coding from IGZ or Zone. However, we can learn from their mistakes and their designs if we were to setup a seperate project.

Bottom line is - it is possible but not realistic. To develop, run, and maintain a lobby system would be a project that would leave us with annual costs anywhere from $5000-$10,000. :(

I have 3 ideas though. Here they are.

1) ZeqMacaw has been working on the JKLauncher project for years. As creative and useful as it is, it is not the same as a lobby system like Zone or IGZ. I like Beef's idea - You could of course pay Zeq to finish his project, which I think he would definitely agree to. He might even consider working on a Dplay lobby system.

2) We could move back to IGZ. Personally, I think IGZ is near-perfect. We could run a big campaign to get people back on IGZ and hope for the best. Their website seems unreliable though, unfortionately.

3) Lastly, you could consider donating money to IGZ. A big chunk of change might do wonders for improving their operation.

I hope this information helps answer your question.

If you decide to hire a programmer, don't just post the job here, put it on monster.com or some similar website. There are very few experienced C++ programmers in the Jedi Knight community.

- ReT
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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby EAH_XxHeReTiKxX » July 13th, 2009, 1:09 pm

The following is an exerpt from a thread I posted on gamedev's forums several years ago:
Wow. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it. And if anyone had the help file, I would appreciate that also. Believe it or not I ordered Inside DirectX out of desperation but the people I ordered it from sent me the wrong book. lol

Thanks again!!!

To the person who asked:
Years ago I was pouring through old SDK's looking for anything that might help me forge a DirectPlay lobby. I eventually found the Bellhop/LServer example, very similar to a Zone.com Lobby, and intended to adopt it for use. However do to the loss of a hard drive, I no longer had the DX5 SDK. I am the webmaster for a website of a DirectPlay launchable game that used to be hosted on the Zone. When the zone dropped it, activity plummeted. I always knew that a lobby very similar to the zone would make a big difference in reviving the community, and so I set out on this project along with the help of another programmer. The plan is to build off the bellhop example and develop solutions for the following problems(there were more, I don't remember off the top of my head though):

- There was no user registration system.
- You could not be in the lobby chat and a table chat simultaneously
- Some other fixes that needed to be taken care of before deployment

- Rob Tharley
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Wodz
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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby Wodz » July 14th, 2009, 1:32 pm

This is not really my field (programming)..so I am just throwing ideas out there. I would not be the one to spearhead this initiative, just finance it.

I really thought IGZ had something going for them but we had so many complaints to hand out and I felt like donating (say $40) is fine but since they are working on so many games, why do they care about JK.

If we had something like IGZ but just for JK, I could easily provide a server and hosting. I really do not understand why it would require constant maintenance for updates though? We are talking about a game from 1997. So we need a default directplay that work, a stable lobby with game rooms and maybe a messenger like ZF. Once everything is working, what would require updating? I'm asking seriously since it is not obvious to me.

I am not really familiar with Zeq's project, I have only heard about it a few times. We could petition MSN Gaming Zone to put JK back... but even if that day happens, the zone is very different now and much gayer than in the past. And full of sysop fags from lame games now.

Just trying to throw ideas around

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby Choda » July 14th, 2009, 10:03 pm

get fucked faggot

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby DSbr_Phelan » July 15th, 2009, 11:25 pm

make me the sysops on your new zone chronos

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby ZeqMacaw » July 16th, 2009, 11:20 am

Based on what you guys want from a "lobby system" so far, the only feature currently missing from the latest JKLauncher is the "game rooms" feature. JKLauncher has 3 "lobbies" and lists active game servers. When a game is hosted via JKLauncher, the server and game status are shown. When a player joins a game via JKLauncher, no "game room" is opened; instead JK opens and the player enters the game. JKLauncher functions like IGZ or Zone, but with many more features for JK and MotS specific features (such as handling mods, downloading levels and mods, and patching the game engines).

Ret has requested many times for me to add in the "game rooms", which I would gladly do if there is enough interest.

Sadly, I can't commit to any deadlines for completion, at this time, so I have not contacted Wodz directly.

:)

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby EAH_XxHeReTiKxX » July 16th, 2009, 1:28 pm

ZeqMacaw wrote:Based on what you guys want from a "lobby system" so far, the only feature currently missing from the latest JKLauncher is the "game rooms" feature. JKLauncher has 3 "lobbies" and lists active game servers. When a game is hosted via JKLauncher, the server and game status are shown. When a player joins a game via JKLauncher, no "game room" is opened; instead JK opens and the player enters the game. JKLauncher functions like IGZ or Zone, but with many more features for JK and MotS specific features (such as handling mods, downloading levels and mods, and patching the game engines).

Ret has requested many times for me to add in the "game rooms", which I would gladly do if there is enough interest.

Sadly, I can't commit to any deadlines for completion, at this time, so I have not contacted Wodz directly.

:)

Zeq:

I have two questions.

1) If you implemented game rooms, would your lobby system still be IRC-based or would you develop a true DirectPlay lobby system?

2) You mention that you cannot commit to any deadlines. What if you were financially compensated for your time? Would this change your situation at all?

Thanks,

ReT
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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby EAH_XxHeReTiKxX » July 16th, 2009, 1:38 pm

Wodz wrote:This is not really my field (programming)..so I am just throwing ideas out there. I would not be the one to spearhead this initiative, just finance it.

Understood, I see where you are coming from.

Wodz wrote:I really thought IGZ had something going for them but we had so many complaints to hand out and I felt like donating (say $40) is fine but since they are working on so many games, why do they care about JK.

I was thinking more like a few hundred. Again, it might do wonders for their operations. We also have LSF_Nickz on our side who is a staff member over at IGZ. The JK lobby is also still there despite our absense.

Wodz wrote:If we had something like IGZ but just for JK, I could easily provide a server and hosting. I really do not understand why it would require constant maintenance for updates though? We are talking about a game from 1997. So we need a default directplay that work, a stable lobby with game rooms and maybe a messenger like ZF. Once everything is working, what would require updating? I'm asking seriously since it is not obvious to me.

It's a bit hard to explain without getting too technical. But basically, a lobby, just like any other piece of software, is always going to require bug fixes, security updates, etc. Take IGZ for example - even though they have a full team of programmers, their service is still not perfect.

Wodz wrote:I am not really familiar with Zeq's project, I have only heard about it a few times. We could petition MSN Gaming Zone to put JK back... but even if that day happens, the zone is very different now and much gayer than in the past. And full of sysop fags from lame games now.

Just trying to throw ideas around

I would recommend that you look into Zeq's project. It can be found on JKHub.net. Petitioning Zone.com is not a possibility. I find it extremely unlikely that they would even consider bringing back gaming lobbies, much less a lobby for JK.
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ZeqMacaw
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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby ZeqMacaw » July 17th, 2009, 12:11 pm

Ret asked:
"If you implemented game rooms, would your lobby system still be IRC-based or would you develop a true DirectPlay lobby system?"

This is the last time I will talk about what you mean by "true DirectPlay lobby system", as I am annoyed that you still go on about it. In short, from the user's perspective, it doesn't matter if it is irc-based, directplay-based, or some other protocol.
Why does it matter to you? It could be that you just use bad wording for what you mean, so I will clarify what I would implement.

I would implement what I would call "game rooms". A user could open a game room instead of starting/hosting a game directly (which is what JKLauncher does currently). The game room would be a separate chat room that would also show game settings. The user who opened the game room is the host and is the one who can start the game from within the room. When the host starts the game, JKLauncher will also join every player in the room to the host's game. Is this not what Zone and IGZ did/do? Is this not what you mean by "true DirectPlay lobby system"? Note that I have not mentioned if this will use DirectPlay or IRC or something else. It doesn't matter.


Ret asked:
"You mention that you cannot commit to any deadlines. What if you were financially compensated for your time? Would this change your situation at all?"

I can't commit to any deadlines for working on JKLauncher. Giving me money will not change that; that was my point, and why I didn't contact Wodz. I would always welcome money from anyone for working on JKLauncher; it would certainly show me that interest is there.

:)

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby DSbr_Phelan » July 17th, 2009, 8:46 pm

the answer to your question is no zeq. because it isn't the zone bub!

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby SM Sith Lord » July 19th, 2009, 5:12 pm

You could have a 100% accurate recreation of the zone and fuckers would still complain and say its not as good as original zone. Simply because you remember things being cooler than they actually are.

JKLauncher is a cool little program, it'd be pwnage if....
A. My chat computer could run JK
B./C. More people used it to host games/It listed games from JKBot.

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby BeefCaike » July 27th, 2009, 12:42 pm

Actually Sith, Cid already implemented JKLauncher's gamelist into the bot. It's pretty kool... anybody that hosts a game with JKL will see their game listed on the JKBot when you type !listgames.

It would be nice if it worked the other way around too where JKL could see games listed on the Bot.

But still, I feel Zeq's JKLauncher is the best option for the JK Community to thrive. IRC has been doing well for the last 5 years, but it's that damn port thing that makes it a pain in the ass. If Zeq can make JKL more user-friendly, it would definitely be a winner! I trust Zeq's programming skills... he has been cogging for me for a couple years now.

If Wodz wants to throw money at this idea, then I would say dig deep, and make it worth Zeq's time and dedication. He has been doing it for quite a while now with little support from anyone. It's been a hot topic floating around #jk. Even though IRC works for 98% of the people that use it, the other 2% are still unable to play due to their routers. And 2% in the JK Community standard is like... 2 people... lol.

Anyways... to answer Wodz's idea of bringing back the Zone... Sith has a point. Whatever we do nowadays to recreate the Zone will never be the same. It had its time back in 97-00, and the way we felt when logging into ZoneFriends is now but a memory. Nothing will ever bring that back. Sure someone can make a program that looks and feels like the Zone... but it just wont make you feel the same as you did back then. I know what you want, but it's just not possible. Sad, I know... I miss those days too. :(

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Re: Can someone recreate Zone's Nar if I pay them?

Postby Nicodemus » July 31st, 2009, 3:33 am

You're all wasting your time. This has been attempted for every game from the 90's. The only "successful" ones were server based. Cuz they could re-route the master server to a new one after the original was taken down due to its "outdatedness". But essentially its still the same. 15-20 people who want to relive some day when they were good at something that took actual skill. I understand this. Games these days are a fucking joke. Long gone are the JK's, UT's, and Tribes games you all loved and hated at the same time because the learning curve was batshit insane.

Now we're left with Counter Strike, Battlefield 230498230948203984203984, and 50 other WWII games that take no skill whatsoever, no nohow, and have no "holy shit i just did something incredibly awesome that nobody will likely ever repeat that" ever again. Not to mention the complete failures in the sequels to the original games mentioned.

The idea of having a zone still is pretty much pointless. There'd be maybe 2 people in it at any given time. The two games that are hosted would be nf bgj and nf jioasis. And that'd be that. The occasional CTF game wouldn't be worth it cuz not everyone would know how to play.


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